(no subject)

[elfy]

first let me state, i feel very sorry for this loss of thousands of lifes, for all this pain and suffering. i wished it didn't happen. and i hope that the terrorists and ibn laden, if he is the man behind this, gets punished.
but i wonder two things:
1. america says it will not loose this war. but isn't calling this a war, *making* this a war already a kind of loosind? isn't it, what the terrorists wanted?
2. would that have happen in germany... or in india... in mexico... in spain... would there be the same reactions? let me say, i hope the same reactions would be there (that all show their solidarity), but somehow i think it wouldn't be the same.

i have to go on cleaning up.
i don't want toooo.
-_-

Comments

[fuchs.livejournal.com]

1. Starting that war does not mean loosing. Not in any way. Those terrorists seem to think, that they are untouchable. But they will realize, that they are not.

2. Well, *if* something like *that* would've happened I suppose, the reactions would've been the same, because that act of terrorism even put countries together, which are not known as good friends, such as USA - China or USA - Russia.

[afke.livejournal.com]

1. America thinks it's untouchable too, and it should forget about that.

2. I have no, absolutely no idea...
Probably not. But right now this act IS pulling people together.

[fuchs.livejournal.com]

1. That's right. I do not doubt that. But in my opinion, America's belief inviolability is completely different to those, which terrorists have.
You can not compare them, can you?!

Thoughts...

[crowkeeper.livejournal.com]

We saw in the speeches Bush made the assumed form of behaviour: The nation is glorified, used synonymous with freedom, the terrorists and especially Ibn Laden are referred to as devils. This is the typical black/white-painting we can see throughout american history. It is normal, since the only thing holding the USA together are the Ideals of the founding fathers. However, it is a bit shortsighted.
The impact on American life must be enormous when we think that the last incident comparable to that full-scale terror war was during the civil war nearly 150 years back. What we experienced here in Europe as modern warfare, guerilla warfare, and so on, is just a TV special in the USA.
If something like that happened somewhere else, it would be remarked as barbaric, too. But it would have been "somewhere else", not in the heart of the leading power of freedom and civilisation, not on the symbol for America's greatness. In other countries, it would be an "incident". In the USA, it is a tragedy.
Don't misinterpret me. I have nothing in common with people doing things like this.

Re: Thoughts...

[fuchs.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but *your* sight is shortsighted here. I am taken aback because of your posting. What you call the "typical black/white-painting [...] throughout American history" according to president Bush's speech is just normal. Any other head of state elsewhere in the civilized countries all over the world would have reacted the same way Bush did. Remember the reactions of other politicians. Their message were the same that Bush announced.
And of course, terrorists are esteemed as devils, because this is a suitable word to describe them.

Apart from that I wonder, why you are sure, that if that attack would have happened "somewhere else" it'd be seen as a minor concern. Why do you arrogante to predict that. Can you see the future? No, you can't. Just imagine that would've happened in lets say London, Paris, Berlin or even Frankfurt. Do you really think, the reactions would be different. Do you think the world thinks, that thousands of dead and injured Americans are better or worth to be mentioned than anyone else?

I think, you should start to think about your opinions ASAP.

Re: Thoughts...

[okoge.livejournal.com]

the only thing holding the USA together are the Ideals of the founding fathers

I find this statement to be preposterous.
Even if it were true. Even if it were true, those ideals are nothing to sneeze at. "The only thing" indeed!

[kergillian.livejournal.com]

I believe the largest death toll from a terrorist act was a hotel fire (somewhere in Europe, I don't recall) that killed about 400(? maybe 800, I'm not sure) people.
This attack likely killed more that 10,000. Maybe as many as 40,000.
It doesn't matter where it happened. It cannot be allowed to happen again.

Re: Thoughts...

[crowkeeper.livejournal.com]

Did I "sneeze" at the ideals? No. And of course I find the idea of founding a state on a "philosophy" much, much better than founding on something like "race", "culture", "religion" and what dumb ideas people brought up in the last thousand years. No, in this respect, America is much better.
What do you think are the characteristics that gives connection to the 240 million people?

Re: Thoughts...

[crowkeeper.livejournal.com]

>Any other head of state elsewhere in the civilized countries all over the world would have >reacted the same way Bush did.
I doubt that. Also, this is putting on the saddle the other way around. It is a specific phenomenon I mention that you can follow through American history. In other countries there is a "We/the opponent". In America it is very, very often a "light/darkness".
>Remember the reactions of other politicians. Their message were the same that Bush >announced.
No, the messages were indeed not the same.
>And of course, terrorists are esteemed as devils, because this is a suitable word to describe >them.
You mix up personal feelings with objective analysis. The point I object is that the terrorists are not send by the "antichrist", they are persons which remind of a throwback to the stone-age, to fascistic Germany, or to Algeria 1997. They are persons encradled in their ideology, who never feeled the effects of the "Aufkl?rung". They are not metaphysical attackers. And even they do not eat babies when they are at home. Of course I understand that a demonization of the enemy is necessary to fight him, but this is not a proper way of discussion.

Please read my post again without assuming that I "hate" America. I do not hate it.

Re: Thoughts...

[fuchs.livejournal.com]

1. Try to stop for a second think. What you call light/darkness is the same as we/the Opponent. All western heads of state talked about light/darkness to in the same way as Bush did, about good and evil, about freedom and terror, and so on. So, where is the difference.

2. Are you sure? I remember Tony Blair's last statement, that they will fight the terrorists together with the United States with all powers they have. So?

3. Oh, come on. *You* should really stop to teach me the difference between personal feelings and objective analysis as you are not in the position to do so, are you?!
Btw., if you try to figure out the contradiction in calling them devils, please remember that christian religion knows The Devil, not a horde of tiny, handy devils putting their tridents up your ass.

I suppose you should try to stick back a little and not try to pretend to have a level of knowledge and experience, that you do not have.

Re: Thoughts...

[crowkeeper.livejournal.com]

> What you call light/darkness is the same as we/the Opponent.
No. The first holds a metaphysical implication, the second is a realistic statement.

2. France and Germany said they wanted to keep a cool head.

3. I wonder, on what part do you want to prove that?

I do not pretend a level of knowledge that I do not have. It is just that I have different opinions and different knowledge than you. Don't take this as an attack, I value your opinion, it is very refreshing and interesting.